mizuno_youko ([info]mizuno_youko) wrote,
@ 2009-05-25 10:46:00
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Entry tags:wild ramblings

This and that
Saw the new Star Trek movie. Liked it. It made me appreciate "Valiant" all the more, though. Triumphant stories are great most of the time, but sometimes it's nice to see a story where a "brilliant," reckless plan doesn't actually work out.


And now, a rant:
I'm getting a little tired of seeing people oversimplify the "you should buy things you like" issue (as in manga, books in general, DVDs, and so on). Yes, money talks, and sales do matter. This is common sense. But people act like it's some sort of noble, self-sacrificing thing to buy something you like for yourself. What we are talking about here is enlightened self-interest, or long-term self-interest rather than short-term (the future enjoyment you'll get if more things you like are created, rather than just the enjoyment you get from having it right now).
If you buy a popular book from the store, this is not a charitable donation to the writer/artist. It is one sale of many that will help keep them in a job, help keep the publisher and store in business, and help keep the market going--very important, and all things we want, but not as heroic as people make it out to be. (Note that if it's a small-press or self-published niche title that you're buying, each individual sale is more important.)
You are not single-handedly saving a given genre by buying a few books or videos; you are one of many, many people who are making the genre profitable. If your one sale was lost, it would be unfortunate, but it would not be a crushing blow; in fact, it would probably not be noticed at all. It is important for everyone to chip in, but let's not give each individual more importance than they deserve--that just sounds unconvincing and self-important. Will people only buy things if they feel like they're doing someone else a gigantic favor by doing so? Do they need to feel like their one sale is more than a drop in the bucket of a drop in the bucket for it to be worthwhile to them? I really hope not.

In short: Of course it's important to put your money where your mouth is, when you can. I hope that many other people are buying the things I like right along with me, so we can have more of them and so that the people producing them can stay in business. But am I some sort of morally superior, selfless superhero for buying a book I want instead of, for instance, donating the money to charity, or spending it on a gift for someone? Not so much.

On a related note, I found this series of posts (check the "Related:" section at the top first) informative.




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[info]kyanited
2009-05-25 05:51 pm UTC (link)
This is true. What I'm actually afraid of and annoyed by is a whole culture of people /expecting/ stuff they like to be available for free, not even bothering to ackowledge or even realizing that it actually costs money to produce and distribute them.

I support the no-single-hero statement, but I think it's still important to encourage people and keep telling them that everyone counts. Just like with elections. :) (If the one-more-or-less-doesn't-make-a-difference-virus spreads, it will make a difference.)

Do they need to feel like their one sale is more than a drop in the bucket of a drop in the bucket for it to be worthwhile to them?

Just like with elections, yes. I'm afraid it lies somewhere in the human nature. And I don't mind if that's people's reason for buying, as long as they refrain from guilt-tripping those who don't want or cannot afford. (On the other hand, those who cannot or want not spend the money should refrain from demanding the stuff for free. In the end, what we're talking about are luxury items.)
And while both is annoying, I'm more annoyed by those sending me emails /demanding/ scans and uploads, often without even typing please or phrasing it as a request, than by those pretending they single-handedly prevent a company from going bankrupt.

I buy my things for a very selfish reason, too: the satisfaction of owning something real and original that I truly enjoy. (Also in the human nature: collecting trophies. :P )

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[info]mizuno_youko
2009-05-25 06:23 pm UTC (link)
What I'm actually afraid of and annoyed by is a whole culture of people /expecting/ stuff they like to be available for free, not even bothering to ackowledge or even realizing that it actually costs money to produce and distribute them.

I'm with you 100% there. We all run the risk of being spoiled by all the free stuff out there, be it through legitimate (libraries, giveaways, free samples, legit free online content like webcomics) or illegitimate channels. As with anything, it is important that we keep the real cost of things at the forefront of our minds.


I support the no-single-hero statement, but I think it's still important to encourage people and keep telling them that everyone counts. Just like with elections. :) (If the one-more-or-less-doesn't-make-a-difference-virus spreads, it will make a difference.)

I agree, but I think people are sophisticated enough to understand the "We can only do this if we work together. Everyone needs to chip in, and too many free riders will break the whole system." idea without resorting to the delusion that their purchase/vote is going to be the one to tip the scales so they can feel like a hero about it. Maybe I'm overestimating people there.


And while both is annoying, I'm more annoyed by those sending me emails /demanding/ scans and uploads, often without even typing please or phrasing it as a request, than by those pretending they single-handedly prevent a company from going bankrupt.

I find both types incredibly annoying, honestly. The former for being spoiled brats who think everyone else exists to cater to their desires, and the latter for being self-absorbed, holier-than-thou, preachy people who talk as though it's a crime not to buy/own everything you want (materialism, materialism, materialism).


I buy my things for a very selfish reason, too: the satisfaction of owning something real and original that I truly enjoy. (Also in the human nature: collecting trophies. :P )

Completely understandable.

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[info]kyanited
2009-05-25 06:47 pm UTC (link)
Maybe I'm overestimating people there.

My impression from what I've seen in networking places is that you are. :(

Could of course be, like so often, that it's the loud minority ruining the impression.

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[info]shinigami_ryuuk
2009-05-25 07:13 pm UTC (link)
The issue isn't people having this notion, its the people who SUPPORT it; more than once on scanlation groups' IRCs I've experienced someone say something like "I bought Shinigami no Ballad in stores today, translated!" and there's 5+ responses of "its so good you got it even though we got a translation of that on a server here! Tell us how MUCH we should buy it :)"
The same thing has been happening in classical music, as if its some kind of amazing thing to buy non box-set CDs or sheet music from more expensive publishers when you don't plan on studying it. Yes, all these things have a use, but I could hand you an mp3 on a 'key and make PHOTOCOPIES of a cheaper or foreign-ripped public domain edition, and no one else would care. Or they shouldn't, BUT THEY DO.
It all seems to come out of an intense economic nihilism; if you don't do it, no one will (forgetting that the demographic active most online is already guaranteed, and represents a MICROfraction of those who buy manga!).
When was the last time you talked about Death Note or Strawberry Panic? But in the USA it flies off the shelves before you know it, in a day. Meanwhile light novels are still minor things, but prices are GOING DOWN. That doesn't happen when it doesn't sell; when it doesn't sell they stop making things. Books are not like groceries........

(Reply to this)

Well put.
[info]yuricon_alc
2009-06-01 07:31 pm UTC (link)
As one of the people who undoubtedly comes off as preachy, I of course keep beating the dead horse not to blow my own horn or show my otaku cred, but as a way to provide a role model and a different way of thinking.

I understand why people download even when a licensed version is available - it's not always bloody-minded selfishness. More often it's lack of discretionary income, or lack of awareness. Sure, sometimes it's lack of initiative, but that's a smaller minority - especially in the Yuri world where you and I so make it as easy as possible.

Because I am an old fogey and a publisher, my response tend more towards the "If you can't afford it, then you really have no right to it at all," but I acknowledge the place that scans and subs have in niche markets as a tool to build and maintain fan interest. (In fact, I was speaking to an industry peer about that recently and we agreed that it should be possible to bring an ethical group, like Lililicious, into the promotional stream, rather than just cutting it off. At least theoretically. :-)

I *hope* I don't sound like I'm saying "Look at me, I bought a book, I'm a freaking hero!" I buy what I buy solely for the pleasure of having it. It's not a right - it's a really silly habit I enjoy immensely. lol If I do ever do sound that way, please hand me a tin horn and request I blow it somewhere else.

But I will continue to point out that having no money isn't *really* a good excuse for downloading licensed material. Unlicensed is, in my mind, another issue and one that will have different answers for different audiences.

Cheers,

Erica

Hungry for Yuri? Have some Okazu!
http://okazu.blogspot.com

(Reply to this) (Thread)

Re: Well put.
[info]mizuno_youko
2009-06-01 08:23 pm UTC (link)
As one of the people who undoubtedly comes off as preachy, I of course keep beating the dead horse not to blow my own horn or show my otaku cred, but as a way to provide a role model and a different way of thinking.

Understood.

Because I am an old fogey and a publisher, my response tend more towards the "If you can't afford it, then you really have no right to it at all,"

I wouldn't say people have a right to it, no. But it is nice when people have access to books they can't afford--through legitimate institutions like libraries, for example.

(In fact, I was speaking to an industry peer about that recently and we agreed that it should be possible to bring an ethical group, like Lililicious, into the promotional stream, rather than just cutting it off. At least theoretically. :-)

Sounds interesting. You'll have to keep me posted on the development of that idea.

I *hope* I don't sound like I'm saying "Look at me, I bought a book, I'm a freaking hero!"

I wouldn't say you do, no. People you influence, perhaps, but that's different.

I buy what I buy solely for the pleasure of having it. It's not a right - it's a really silly habit I enjoy immensely. lol If I do ever do sound that way, please hand me a tin horn and request I blow it somewhere else.

Will do. lol

But I will continue to point out that having no money isn't *really* a good excuse for downloading licensed material. Unlicensed is, in my mind, another issue and one that will have different answers for different audiences.

Agreed.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

Re: Well put.
[info]yuricon_alc
2009-06-01 09:31 pm UTC (link)
> wouldn't say people have a right to it, no. But it is nice when people have access to books they can't afford--through legitimate institutions like libraries, for example.

I know you know how much I believe in supporting libraries, but your readers might not - so please allow me to suggest to them what I suggest to my own - donate your new/extra good condition English manga to your local library! Especially if they have a small GN section - you can be sure they never have enough money and will be thrilled to have additional material.

Almost all of my English-language manga goes to a library when I am done with it. What they cannot use I am donating to the AnimeNEXT traveling Manga Library and what they can't use I'll find an alternate home for.

The best thing is you know that many people have a chance to enjoy something you've enjoyed - maybe even making a bigger audience for it in your area. :-)

Cheers,

Erica

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